now in paperback. hope you get a chance to get it, read it, and for the first time understand. it's the kind of book you want to read at this time of year especially. we need heroes. we can give thanks that here we truly had one. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "politics nation" with al sharpton starts right now. thanks, chris. and thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's lead, the gop's romney problem. there have been some strange responses to the republicans' election loss. but none has been more cynical than that from willard mitt romney. and it has hit his party hard. romney's claim, caught on tape, that the president won the election because of gifts to minorities and young people has made a bad loss even worse for republicans. portions of the tape were posted online, though msnbc doesn't know exactly when the call took

place. >> what the president -- president's campaign did was focus on certain members of his base coalition, give them extraordinary financial gifts from the government, and then work very aggressively to turn them out to vote. >> the giving away free stuff is a hard thing to compete with. >> free stuff. it's offensive. and it's exactly what romney talked about in his 47% tape. it wasn't a gaffe. it wasn't a mistake. we now know it's exactly what this small-minded man believes. >> what the president did is he gave them two things. one, he gave them a big gift on immigration, with the dream act and the amnesty program. number two, he put in place obama care, which is -- which basically is $10,000 a family. i mean, it's a proven political

strategy, which is give a bunch of money from the government to a group. and guess what, they'll vote for you. >> in romney's world view passing laws and helping people get a fair shake is "giving money to a group." but that wasn't what our leaders are elected to do. romney and the romney republicans forget that that is what they are elected and to forget that is to do so at your own peril. joining me now is david corn, mother jones washington bureau chief and msnbc political analyst. his new e-book is about how he uncovered romney's original 47% video. and abby huntsman, host and producer of "huff post live." today she tweeted, "romney makes it sound like obama personally handed out fruit baskets to people to win the election."

you're right about that, abby. thanks for joining me tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> abby, the romney campaign put out a statement today saying, "governor romney was simply elaborating on what david axelrod had said about the obama campaign's effort to target key demographics, most specifically women." what's your reaction to that statement? >> well, reverend, i'm still waiting for my fruit basket. i'm not only a woman but i'm a young voter. i never received one. i think what we're seeing here -- >> it's coming, abby. it's coming. >> what we're seeing here, and david corn will probably say the same thing, is just a confirmation that he really does believe that 47% comment. he's very much at home when he's talking to his donors. and moreover, i think when we're talking about this so-called gift, when you give someone a gift you do it because you want to give it to them, not because they necessarily need, it not because they necessarily deserve it. so to suggest that by obama

providing medicare to americans, to say that it's the same thing as passing out fruit baskets is not only inaccurate, i think it's offensive to a lot of americans. and i think it reconfirms a lot of the reason people were unsure about romney, this language, this us versus them mentality. it's also a case of sour grapes is what we're seeing. >> and he said about women, i'm quoting here, free contraceptives were very big with young college-aged women. i mean, abby, with all of the health implications and the seriousness connected with contraceptives, you're going to reduce that to a gift to get votes? >> i think this is exactly the reason why he was not successful, why his campaign was not successful. it wasn't a matter of obama giving out these so-called gifts. i think it was the language that was used, not only among many republicans but specifically with romney. he made a number of statements that i think frightened women,

that frightened latinos. it frightened these key groups, that ultimately could not check the box when they went to the voting booth on election day. >> now, david, it seems that romney's not the only one touting this kind of concept. look at some of the right-wing pundits and people that have influenced the right in this country. how they are on the basic general same premise that he's using. watch this. >> sure. >> america in some ways is changing. >> yes. >> and it's changing in this way, is that -- it's the allure of free. >> there are 50% of the voting public who want stuff. they want things. >> they're the party of free stuff. they are the party of santa. >> david? >> you know, under their definition, under mitt romney's definition, medicare is a gift. social security is a gift. medicaid is a gift.

veterans' assistance is a gift. and that's one reason why he lost. most americans don't see it that way. i have to tell you, reverend, when i first saw those 47% remarks, it's 67 seconds on that hour-long video i got, and i wondered, you know, it was clear what he said. we came on -- i came on the show. we talked about it. everyone can judge for themselves. but i wondered to what degree, whether this was mitt romney really saying what he believed or saying what he thought the people in the room wanted to hear. that he was talking to these rich folks who are resentful against people who aren't as successful as they are. and when you tie that together with those comments about gifts, just gifts, these people just want free stuff, this is what it's all about, they don't care. he also said they don't care about the big issues. they just care about themselves and they're just little money-grubbing moochers and victims. it all ties together. we had a long debate during this campaign whether mitt romney was

a flip-flopper or a conservative, what he really believed, whether he was just saying what he thought people wanted him to say. i think you tie together the 47% rant with these gift remarks and you have a really accurate picture of a man who almost became president. >> i think that the thing, though, that most disturbs me, david, is the bigger picture here. when you look at the fact that the election is over and one of the reasons that i wanted to highlight this is that it's a mindset that we've got to deal with, which is why it appealed to other right-wingers. romney feels that it's perfectly all right -- let me share his version of gifts. to give tax cuts to corporations. tax cuts to millionaires. and slashing regulations for big business. those are not gifts because they are supposed to have these things. they're entitled to that. but if you give health care to senio seniors, if you look out for people that need help, if you look out for young people to get

a way in life, if you provide health needs for young women, that's a gift. like they're less than equal to these corporations and the rich. that kind of political flo philosophy is dangerous and to me un-american. >> well, i think it is. i think it's a version of class warfare. when the president talks about making sure kids can get loans to go to college or even forgiveness of loans so they don't -- aren't burdened by debt, he's doing this so that america has a vibrant and innovative economy, that people -- we're moving ahead. it's not a handout. this is a way of investing in our future as a nation. >> as well as giving incentives to -- >> not to recognize that shows that he's really living on a different planet. and you know, that's what this election boiled down to, these very different views of visions and values for the nation. and he has firmly planted the flag on the side of, you know, the rich get what they get and

everybody else -- >> because that -- we need to give incentives to business. but we also must take care of americans. but abby, i see a lot of the republicans, particularly those that are looking toward bringing the party back from a political loss and some who are thinking about 16, seem to be running away from him. bobby jindal and scott walker were quick to reject romney today. watch this. >> i absolutely reject that notion, that description. i think that's absolutely wrong. that is not -- i don't think that represents where we are as a party. >> we're the party that helps people find a pathway to live the american dream. and it's not just for people who are currently not dependent on the government. it's for all americans. >> abby, your father was considered by many to be too moderate for these candidates that ran in this primary. do you think that more moderate

voices in the republican party will stand up like we just saw jindal and, of all people, scott walker? >> they're not even moderates. they're just reasonable. >> right. reverend, my dad doesn't look so crazy after all, does he? i mean, what happened tuthen advertisety? when i see some of these gop are speaking out such as governor jindal -- >> who are not moderates. david's right. go ahead. >> if you go back and read some of his tweets during the primary and general election, you'll see he's very far from moderate. but this is not the first time that governor romney has made a comment that turns people off, as david corn talks about in his book. and in his reporting about the 47% comment. where were they then? i think a lot of these people sat with their tail between their legs and didn't have the courage to say anything when it was not politically popular and now all of a sudden romney's lost and he realized in order to win i've got to be that moderate voice, i've got to take over as the same guy, the more moderate guy. and i have to take a step back

and say i was there throughout this whole process, i watched my dad run as the moderate candidate, and it's really sad to see the lack of authenticity that exists in the party today. and i hope that people don't see through it. >> i think that's what it's all about, is what is government about and who are the real people in this country that -- and what they can expect from the country that they live and love. david, i've got to go. a abby, thank you so much for your time tonight. ahead, the roots of the gift and 47% comments began 30 years ago. tonight, you will hear newly uncovered tapes from lee atwater on the republican dog whistle on race. the man who uncovered the tape joins me. and ding, ding, ding. here we go again. it's president obama versus john mccain. seems to me the senator is breaking down. plus, move over, rush.

we have more conspiracy theories. wait until you hear what the gop chair in maine is saying about voter fraud. you're watching "politics nation" on msnbc. and we got onesies. sometimes miracles get messy. so we use tide free. no perfumes or dyes for her delicate skin. brad. not it. not it. just kidding. that's our tide. what's yours? is a thrilling, dual-flavored ride to mouth fun-town. but it's not like everyone is going to break into a karaoke jam session. ♪ this will literally probably never happen. [ male announcer ] why not talk to someone who's sleeping

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we're back on "politics nation" with a question. what in the world is going on with john mccain? a day after the president publicly humiliated him for cowardly attacking u.n. ambassador susan rice, someone who had nothing to do with the libya tragedy, mccain was out looking for another tv camera again. hey, america. this is what bitterness looks like. >> four americans died that didn't have to die. and for someone to go out and convey something that is absolutely false to all america in my view bears responsibility. >> i don't know how you logically assume that she had nothing to do with benghazi. the american people were told false information by her at the direction of the white house. >> now, we all know ambassador rice was stating the

intelligence that had been provided to her. but mccain wasn't done. >> by the way, i'm not taking anybody on. the american people have lost four brave americans. we owe it to their families. we owe it to other americans who served. we'll find out what happened. for the president of the united states for two weeks afterwards to deny that that was the case is either a cover-up or it is incompetence. either one of the two. i think the president of the united states has a lot to answer for. >> it's obama versus mccain. and this one is going to end the same way the first one did. joining me now is joan walsh, editor at large for salon.com and an msnbc political analyst, and raul jabraial, a contributor to "newsweek" and the daily beast and an msnbc contributor. thanks to both of you for being here tonight. >> thank you for having us. >> joan, what is going on with john mccain? >> i don't know.

he looks increasingly unhinged. i'm just going to say it. he has let this get so personal, get to him so badly that he's really sacrificing a lot of the credibility he's built up over the years. even with the mainstream media, reverend al, who tend to love john mccain. he's a regular guest on the sunday shows. but it's gotten so ugly and so dismissive of both the president and ambassador rice. in very personal terms that are going to stick and that we all want to get to the bottom of what happened. there are still some questions. there were questions when susan rice went out and talked about it. but he's distorting her statement. he's absolutely distorting what she said. and he's also being incredibly dismissive and mean-spirited. and it just looks personal. >> actually, in a moment where the nation is asking both sides, the government and the opposition, to work together because we have the fiscal cliff, immigration reforms and many other issues. plus mccain is the one that never questioned condoleezza rice when that administration actually lied to the nation,

lied to the nation about iraqi war, weapon of mass destruction, and cost the country hundreds of millions of dollars. 5,000 soldiers were killed. these soldiers still, we have 40,000 veterans that came injured from that war. a war that was a total lie. plus mccain was the one that actually, he's questioning susan, the ambassador. he didn't question his running mate when he chose her. he didn't even ask her questions about foreign policy. she didn't know that. the uk has a prime minister. she didn't know what the fed was. she didn't know what russia -- what kind of policy she needed to have with russia. >> but rula, let's be fair. sarah palin could see russia from her back yard. i mean -- >> and that's -- >> but he says susan rice doesn't know that much. >> he's the man that picked that woman. you know what? he should reflect -- mccain should reflect about how you should behave when you actually are beaten and defeated.

with dignity. and you should actually question yourself about your mistakes, about your choices, and how the country wants you to behave from now on. the country chose barack obama with a large margin. >> twice. >> twice. not once. twice. and maz a message for him, that he needs to actually cooperate with barack obama, not attack him. >> joan, as i said, he questioned what ms. rice, ambassador rice knows. let me explain. ambassador rice, now the u.n. ambassador to the u.n., foreign policy adviser to john kerry, clinton administration '93 to 2001, a rhodes scholar, a ph.d. from oxford university. i mean, as was stated by rula, he didn't question condoleezza rice in 2005, when the whole world was questioning whether there was weapons of mass destruction. it was accepted that she was stating what was given to her. >> right. >> all miss rice did now, susan rice, was state what she was briefed on that day.

>> and she was very clear. >> by the cia. >> right. and she was very clear about the ongoing uncertainty. i happen to know susan rice. i've known her for a decade. she's brilliant. so this notion that she's not qualified or she wasn't terribly bright in her remarks, it's really insulting. it's really personal. and yes, again, the man who put sarah palin -- tried to put sarah palin a heartbeat away from the presidency is questioning this woman. he also -- when he defended condi rice in 2005, there are great sound bites where he says, you know, there's nothing about the -- some of the democrats question it. there's nothing about this that isn't about revenge, that isn't about the way the election turned out, that isn't about bitterness. he's describing himself. >> and let me say that it is clear to me -- and none of us -- i don't agree with condi rice, but i would never say she wasn't bright. she's a very bright woman. and when you look at the fact that this was brought to -- matt lauer on the "today" show this morning, nbc, raised the question to john mccain.

watch this, rula. >> you said opponents of condoleezza rice were expressing sour grapes after an election loss. why is this different? >> because every intelligence agency in the world including the british believed that iraq had weapons of mass destruction. that was an entirely different situation. >> i don't know what mccain is talking about. it's really -- you know, i have to say, it's concerning for a man that in his concession speech said we're fellow americans, let's remember the country and country first. when he put that sign on his campaign, country first, he should remember these words, and he should remember something else, that what happened in libya happened in 22 countries the same day. there was all over muslim countries riots and manifestations and demonstrations and attacks on embassies. so the assessment that we had the day after, the assessment that actually logical, that the whole picture was the whole -- the situation in the middle east was about that video.

and what time we discovered it was not that way, what you do, you don't attack the u.n. ambassador that in this moment is negotiating with the world on syria, on iran, on russia, on china. >> but she wasn't just going by her own schedule. i think that it's important as we play that tape, joan, that they confirmed condoleezza rice in 2005. the whole world was not believing that then. we had just had a 2004 election in this country about whether or not they were right or wrong about iraq. so that's not true. but what is even more questionable to me, he wants to question the truth about benghazi, mccain. but yesterday he skipped out of a closed-door confidential senate committee hearing about benghazi. he didn't attend the classified briefing for senators wednesday given to the senate homeland security and governmental affairs committee on which he is a member. the committee he's a member. the closed and classified briefing included representatives from the state

department, the defense department, the joint chiefs of staff, the national counterterrorism center, and the fbi, all in this session. instead of attending this committee that was talking about what he says he wanted to get to the bottom of, let me show you what he was doing. >> susan rice should have known better. and if she didn't know better, she's not qualified. >> we will do whatever's necessary to block the nomination that's within our power as far as susan rice is concerned. >> this president and this administration has either been guilty of colossal incompetence or engaged in a cover-up. >> so he was making speeches, making tv appearances, not at the closed committee hearing that he's a member of, and when his staff was questioned about it, they said oh, it was a scheduling conflict. >> right. well, there were no cameras at that closed-door intelligence briefing. so you know, it wasn't going to suit his purposes.

he also went off the deep end today when a cnn reporter asked him why he happened to skip that meeting. and you know, just came off as kind of, again, unhinged and very bitter. >> joan and rula, thank you both for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> coming up, another day, another excuse from the former gop kingmaker. but wait until you hear what a gop chairman is saying about voter fraud. and the roots of gift comments, of makers and takers talk, started in 1981. tonight we will reveal lee atwater's full 1981 interview on how gop could appeal to racism without sounding racist. it's a "politics nation" exclusive.

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forget for a moment all the crazy gop reaction after the election, and check out what "mother jones" magazine uncovered from just before president obama's big win. it's one of the wackiest stories we've ever seen about top georgia gop lawmakers hosting a briefing on secret obama mind control plot. ♪ oh, no, not the mind games! we've heard all kinds of off-the-wall claims about the president from the fringe right. but this is coming from an elected official. it happened last month at a closed-door meeting inside georgia's state house.

georgia republican senate majority leader chip rogers hosted the event. he called on a tea party activist to explain to the republican caucus how president obama is running the country. >> they do that by a process known as delphi technique. it was developed by the rand corporation during the cold war. it's a mind control technique. it's also known as concessive process. but basically the gold of the delphi technique is to lead a targeted group of people to a predetermined outcome while keeping up the illusion of input. >> it's just an illusion. the public was duped. they keep looking to blame someone. anyone, anything. maybe it's time to look in the mirror. joining me now, joe madison, nationally syndicated host of "on the power" on sirius xm. and dana milbank, columnist for

the "washington post." thanks for coming on the show. >> hi, reverend. >> people come up with m stuff, man. >> dana. mind games? i mean, this is a new one. what is it about the far right and this president? i mean, mind games? >> well, they're pretty good mind games if they've got tens of millions of americans to fall for it. but i'm kufszed because mitt romney just said it was because the american people were bribed with gifts. i think they've got to go with one or the other. it was either bribery or it was some mass tens of millions of people going through mind games. look, this is a difficult time here. they will get through this period. but they can study it and look through it, but when it comes right down to it it's pretty obvious that people weren't buying what they were selling and they need to be selling a different product. >> joe madison, karl rove is making all kinds of excuses again. the "wall street journal" today wrote a column and they gave

lessons of defeat for the gop. i'm quoting him here. republicans need not jettison their principles, but they must avoid appearing judgmental and callous on social issues. the gop must reduce the destructiveness of the presidential primaries, also the republican national committee should limit the number of debates and by showing wisdom in picking debate moderators limit the ability -- the media's ability to depict the party as a fringe group. >> yeah. >> so they're og everything but saying, you know what, what we are offering just doesn't work and that people aren't satisfied with the policies we represent. >> true. and if they want to limit the media's ability they ought to start with limiting some of the voices they have out there, particularly in the talk show aaron p. who did more -- my god, limit the sununus, who insulted everyone. you know, the republicans are culturally conditioned to

believe that they're superior. and i think what happened is they simply undervalued, underestimated, and they marginalized an entire group of peop people. there was a republican i think in maine who had the audacity to say we had dozens of black folk and we didn't know who they were, like we count our negroes, you know, like gee, who are they? and we don't know who they are. do you know how 1950-ish that sounds to people? i've got -- i think my maternal grandmother is born in bangor, maine. i'm thinking about going out there and checking it out. >> the person in maine will say that. let me show the sound so people understand exactly what you're talking about. >> yeah. >> in some parts of the state, for example, in some parts of rural maine there were dozens, dozen of black people who came in to vote on election day.

everybody has the right to vote. but nobody in town knows anybody that's black. how did that happen? i don't know. we're going to find out. >> now, later he apologized. you he seemed emphatic. so i mean, dana, when you go to that and you see these kind of -- we've got everything from mind games to traveling blacks that nobody ever saw before that just happens to show up in maine. i mean, it's everything but an examination of the policies that even with hundreds of millions of dollars that americans would buy. >> clearly there are some mind games being practiced on the residents of maine who are no longer able to recognize their neighbors, i suppose. it is extraordinary. you mentioned the karl rove thing. he's coming out with advice of what the republicans should do. now, let's think about his record. he just wasted half a billion dollars, at a success rate of something around 1%, and predicted this lopsided victory for mitt romney. so he's certainly the one who would be in a credible position

to give republicans advice going forward. >> i want to say this, dana, to you. i want you to react to this. going back to joe on the same one. mississippi governor hailey barbour, former mississippi governor i should say, he was a little more blunt in his assessment of what republicans need to do next. watch this. >> we've got to give our political organizational activity, you know, a very serious proctology exam. i think that's the only -- we need to look everywhere is my point. >> he was a little more direct, dana. >> yes. it's always entertaining to listen to hailey barbour. but this isn't rocket science. the problem is republicans are appealing to people who sound and look like hailey barbour. and demographically, they're shrinking into a minority party here. it's very obvious what they need to do. and it doesn't involve medical exams, and it doesn't involve

mind control, and it doesn't involve racial fantasies. >> yeah, you're kind, man. he has it opened up for such a joke that i can't tell on family tv. but you're absolutely right. it goes back to, again, this cultural conditioning. and they've got to understand that you know -- michael steele was right when he was chairman. he was right about it. and if they really want to improve and advance, and i'm not the one to give republicans advice, but the first thing they ought to do -- and i'll just say it. they should get rid of karl rove. he's had his chance. he blew it. he blew it, like you said, almost half a billion dollars. who blows $100 billion and then is asked to come back? they need to regroup. and finally, reverend, know your people. know us. come and talk to us. come on your show. come on my show. talk to our audience. we're not monolithic.

>> all right. joe and dana thanks for your time tonight. >> thanks, reverend. >> ahead, remember when this happened? 5 million barrels of crude oil gushing out underwater? tonight big news on bp's punishment. and the roots of the racially coded gifts and talkers and takers and makers. these comments started in the reagan era. the man who uncovered a new tape joins me next. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. monarch of marketing analysis. with the ability to improve roi through seo all by cob. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. i'm going b-i-g. [ male announcer ] good choice business pro. good choice. go national. go like a pro.

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governor romney's comments that the president won because of gifts to minority are certainly jarring. but they weren't surprising given the gop's long, ugly history of injecting race into campaigns. we're reminded of that by newly uncovered audiotape from notorious republican consultant lee atwater back in 1981. atwater explained the evolution of the gop's southern strategy. how the party could appeal to racism without sounding racist. >> you start out in 1954 by

saying [ bleep ]. by 1968 you can't say [ bleep ]. that hurts you, backfires. so you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. if it is getting that abstract and that coded, that we're doing away with the racial problem one way or the other, you follow me, because obviously sitting around saying we want to cut taxes, we want to cut this, and we want is much more abstract than even the busing thing. and a hell of a lot more abstract than [ bleep ]. >> the repulsive logic became part of the party playbook. in 1976 ronald reagan told stories about the so-called welfare queen in an effort to scare white voters. and the very same lee atwater made the willie horton ad a key part of george h.w. bush's 1988 bid for the white house. and in 2012 the same ugliness took center stage in the gop

primary. >> we know president obama is the best food stamp president in american history. >> i don't want to make black people's lives better by giving them somebody else's money. i want to give them the opportunity to go out and earn the money. >> you're doing it because you care about america. paul and i have not promised you a bigger check from the government. >> as atwater said, the message is coded. but what he's getting at is crystal clear. joining me now is toure, host of "the cycle" here on msnbc, and the man who tracked down the atwater tape, james carter iv. he's an opposition researcher and the grandson of president jimmy carter. thank you both for coming on the show. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> james, first of all, tell us how you got your hands on this tape. >> well, i started looking for it after some of the racially coded language in this campaign,

and i came across this quote several times during my research. so i got in touch with the widow of one of the original interviewers, alec limas, and she agreed to give me the tape. >> so james, in the tape, which we've played, you actually have atwater using the n word saying while we can't use that use coded words. so it was really a major strategist saying what we've got to do is we can't use the language we used to use, so we're going to do it this way. and this became a strategy in some of the republican campaigns. we're talking about a man who ran presidential campaigns. we're not talking about some fringe guy here. >> that's right. he was also the chairman of the republican party at one point. >> toure, this is amazing. >> it's really not amazing.

you know beef been seeing this for a long time, the southern strategy -- >> no, you think what's amazing is he got the tape. >> oh, absolutely. but the southern strategy has been part of the gop soul since the '60s. it's the party of the wealthy. but there's not enough wealthy to win national elections, not enough wealthy to win most states. so you've got to have a way of appealing to people, poorer people, non-college-educated white people. and i'm not saying that they're all racist. but appealing to them via racial anxiety and racial animosity and these sort of things does work. and when they're talking about welfare queens or crime -- you don't even have to say race when you talk about crime. that immediately becomes ooh, we know what we're talking about. >> you don't use the n word anymore. it's coded. >> and lee atwater would feel very comfortable in this 2012 campaign when you talk about the welfare ad we're going to -- obamas removing work from welfare, jufts giving out free money, free stuff. >> food stamps. >> the food stamp president.

he's lazy, these sorts of things. he's not really from america. these are all ways of demonizing him or racializing him without going to the uglier stuff that makes it obvious and embarrassing. >> now, james, atwater also seems to really echo in the tape romney's 47% comments. take a listen. >> i think race as such is going to dissolve as an issue, but you are going toft race question in the sense of on one side you're going to have a guy who's a millionaire and he's got something in common with the guy who's make 10,000 bucks a year. he's paying taxes. and somebody else is not doing anything and taking out of the system. statistically, as the number of non-producers in the system moves toward 50%, that makes the system more and more polarity. >> i mean, it's almost a 50% theory. and this is 1981. and we're hearing this takers

and makers kind of theory today. >> that's right. and lee atwater, when he was giving that explanation, actually put people that earn $10,000 a year as part of the producers in his. so he has a slightly different definition of his 47% than mitt romney does. >> i think the thing that -- as egregious as it is, it also is -- shows to me some encouragement to see that so many americans have gotten beyond this. unfortunately for many of us, it took so many years. but i think a lot of people are not going for it anymore and recognizing -- i'm talking about white and black and latino and asian and recognizing this coded stuff for what it is. that's the hope for the country. >> there's a lot of white people who recognize this stuff and reject the stuff. you just had joan walsh on the show who's done a lot of great work talking about the stuff. we have white people like her and chris matthews speaking out

against it. it really makes a powerful resonance. but a lot of white people, and the social science shows, this a lot of white people look at themselves as the victims in the zero sum game called race. and this stuff, this lee atwater stuff that romney played into, that reagan played into, that the first bush played into, a lot of that stuff plays into that so that it makes them feel like i am the victim and black people are getting entitlements, affirmative action. they're the lucky duckies. they're the welfare successors, right? i work hard. and i give my money to them. this sort of redistribution. no, i don't want that. so they're playing to these racial anxieties. it's disgusting. but we've seen it for so long that it's not even surprising anymore. >> james, you also were the one to discover the 47% tape. and don't get me wrong. i think it is wrong to play on racial fears on either side. whether it be blacks or whites. and i think that to divide based

on fear and false stereotyping is the kinds of things that leads to the demise of the country, james. >> i definitely agree with that. even george bush ran as a uniter and not a divider. that's something that the republican party used to embrace in campaigns. but it doesn't seem that way anymore. >> reverend, i'm actually just happy to be on here with james, who we could call maybe the secret mvp of the 2012 campaign. the republicans used the jimmy carter name wrongly so many times, right? to try to make democrats and obama look bad. and to have it come back that you, sir, stick the knife in romney's rib and make it almost impossible for him to win, i think that's a delicious irony. congratulations to you, sir. >> i think you revealed the truth and let the knife go where it was going.

i mean, the truth is the truth is the truth. and you brought the tapes and let people hear it for themselves. toure and james carter iv, thank you both for your time this evening. and don't forget to catch toure on "the cycle" at 3:00 p.m. weekdays here at msnbc. remember this? the gusher that wouldn't stop. but now bp, the oil company is facing the music. big-time. that's next. [ female announcer ] what does the anti-aging power

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explosion. a and it cost the region $23 billion in revenue. but now the wheels of justice are turning. in a settlement with the justice department bp has agreed to plead guilty to criminal charges, including 11 felonies, and pay a record $4.5 billion fine. three bp employees were charged. two of them with manslaughter. congressman ed marky, a tough bp critic, reacted to the news. >> it is now clear that bp was lying to the congress. they were deliberately lowballing the number. because their liability is directly tied to the number of barrels of oil that flow into the ocean. >> the oil spill showed just how unreliable the company and industry has been when it comes to regulation.

this is why elections matter. regulations was one of the central issues during this campaign. just listen to how governor romney defended big oil on the campaign trail. >> but what we don't need is to have the president keeping us from taking advantage of oil, coal, and gas. >> on day one i'm going to act to increase the number of leases and permits to drill on federal lands. >> in fact, as the oil continued to spill in the gulf, listen to what one republican lawmaker told the ceo of bp during a hearing on capitol hill. >> i think it is a tragedy of the first proportion that a private corporation can be subjected to what i would characterize as a shakedown, in this case a $20 billion shakedown. but i apologize. >> the republican apologizes to bp.